https://www.poetryfoundation.org/podcasts/156195/cynthia-dewi-oka-vs-spectacle
20:50 - 21:30 question
21:40 answer — talking about the spectacle of young moms
21:50 — the thought that imagination was a problem
23:50 — i live in my head a lot, surviving as what i am, who i am, requires surreality; living in a messy situation; being in a number of impossible situations; surrealism is just life
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